Senior Living for Churches, Veterans, and the Developmentally Disabled with Michael Klatt

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Michael Klatt
Michael Klatt

Today, my guest is Michael Klatt, He was the president and CEO at The Lutheran Home Association, serving as their pastor for 30+ years.

The Lutheran Home Association is a not-for-profit ministry dedicated to providing for the spiritual, physical, and emotional needs of people in its care.They offer a wide variety of health-care, housing, and spiritual outreach services with campuses and congregational programs serving seniors and individuals with intellectual developmental disabilities nationwide. Services include senior living, skilled nursing care, memory care, and disability services.

He has stepped down after three decades of service, and now he has a new endeavor to impact the world.

He helps family members with considerable wealth in the management of unique trusts. Michael continues to develop new senior housing, veteran housing, and programs for developmental disabilities.

His team members describe him as “One you want in your foxhole with Trust, integrity, resilience, confidence, and tenacity to overcome every challenge.”

Hanh Brown: [00:00:00] Michael thank you so much for being here. And thanks for the opportunity. So please share with us your journey in senior living and what brought you here.

Michael Klatt: [00:02:34] Sure. I’d be happy to. Thanks for having me here today, I started in my late teens, early twenties thinking I was going to be a pastor in the Lutheran church. And I was going down that route and basically came to a point where I determined that wasn’t going to be my pathway and still wanted to make an impact and serve the church.

[00:02:57] Live out my Christian faith. And ended up being very fortunate to start with a nonprofit in the twin cities area and became their leader for nearly 30 years, served there for 32 years. Nursing homes, assisted living memory care programs for intellectual and developmental disabilities as well. And that.

[00:03:18] Gave me my career path. They might had a brief before that in the hotel business and in the hospitality side and the customer service side, it was a big influence on my senior living experience as well. And so it was always about mission that it was about passion as about the drive to make a difference in people’s lives.

[00:03:38] So I was really blessed to have good people to work with and great opportunities to serve.

Hanh Brown: [00:03:43] the industry is very blessed to have you. And thank you so much. So you mentioned that you were on your way to retirement. The, how long did that last?

Michael Klatt: [00:03:52] Well, about five minutes. I think, you know, I was in a very difficult vehicle accident about five years ago that nearly took my life.

[00:04:00] And after that, you know, things changed. The way, you know, how I felt, but I certainly looked at pain a lot differently and suffering, but it also gave me a point where I said, you know, it’s time to do something else. And then I decided, well, I want to do something else. I was again, very fortunate and moved back to my home state of South Dakota and started my own company.

[00:04:23] And then also began to help people in trust management. I worked with donors, most of my career and South Dakota, Munich trust laws now helping people and trust managements and folks that I’ve known. And I’ve also been working with another board member that I just had the privilege of serving with to develop senior housing with churches.

[00:04:44] So I’ve kept. My opportunities to do that and to really be still involved in the church, but I get to control my schedule a little more. You get to see my granddaughter on daughter and son-in-law my wife and I are blessed to be around her parents. Both our mothers are aging and it was just the right time to be around them as well.

Hanh Brown: [00:05:05] Well, what a blessing to be nearby your kids and to still have both of your parents know that is a blessing. So you’ve been in the senior living industry 30 plus years. So, what is your thought on senior living Ben before the pandemic in now post pandemic? So what changes do you think need to take place?

Michael Klatt: [00:05:24] No, I started in 1988. And so the word assisted living was just starting to become a word. No one really understood what that meant. A lot of nursing homes felt threatened by it, honestly, but it was families really started assisted living. The nursing home sector did not start assisted living. It was families who were very discouraged by their experiences in skilled nursing.

[00:05:49] And they were the ones who really led the system and memory care to where it is today and the alternatives that aren’t there today. So my early experience was how do you adapt out of nursing homes? How do you change the models that were there? My early experience was there a low, as in a lot of focus on hospitality there, wasn’t focused on customer service, fitness, and wellness in their real experience.

[00:06:12] There was a lot of passion, a lot of desire to make. Serve people with respect and decency and honor back then there wasn’t the focus on what we see today, which is a much, much better experience, a much, much better dining outcomes, nutrition, fitness, wellness on the technology today is so dramatically different that it gives you all sorts of opportunities.

[00:06:37] What we see today as much better design, a much better service, a much better outcomes, still the desire to make an impact and treat people with respect. Then I think that’s still positive. I think we’ve carried for, we’ve seen a lot of great providers come into the sector and develop, and I think that’s sharpen the sauce.

[00:06:56] So to speak of other providers who’ve been existing for decades or even well over a hundred years. I agree.

Hanh Brown: [00:07:03] I think the focus back then was somewhat on the care and towards the declining of the residents’ health. And now the emphasis is more on the vibrancy, engagement, healthy living respect, which are all key components in minimizing the chance of dementia.

Michael Klatt: [00:07:23] Right. I think you hit on it right there as vibrancy that people looked at seniors as a declining card and not really valuing what they are still giving in their older, advanced years. And it is a really, really positive experience to see this transformation.

Hanh Brown: [00:07:42] Absolutely. There has been many positive changes.

[00:07:44] I’m sure there’s room for improvements. So what improvements need to take place?

Michael Klatt: [00:07:50] I think some of the improvements that are still not quite where we would want them are still in marketing and sales and making people understand the value proposition of really good senior housing and what it can make an impact.

[00:08:03] I think a lot of organizations struggle with that. And they struggle still with the customer service aspect. One of the things I’ve done since I. You stepped down in my role after 30 years was continuing to do mystery shopping. And I think a lot of organizations still do not know how they’re doing. I think that’s an area where we need to improve.

[00:08:25] I do think though, you’re starting to see a lot of organizations advance and one of the things I’ve, COVID as broad as a whole area focused on telemedicine. And I think we’re going to see a dramatic shift after this. That is really going to be very, very positive. I also think. You’re seeing much better alignments with quality of care and services.

[00:08:46] You’re seeing systems, alignments and partnerships with care partners and insurers that I think are very, very positive. And so there’s so much wonderful advancement in this area. And as our country serves the aging baby boomers, it’s only going to bring greater experiences for decades to come in the United States and really throughout.

Hanh Brown: [00:09:08] So you mentioned two things that I want to add. The first thing is the marketing and sales. I think we need to improve our approach in making people understand the value proposition of what a real good senior housing and how it can make an impact on one’s life. I’m a proponent of that. When we operate on a fee base lead generation, to me, that’s very transactional and I’m not so much in favor of that since this is all about the relationship of the family and trusting in their caregiver.

[00:09:43] I believe we need to educate families and the children as early, as in their forties of what senior living is, it’s options, the cause healthcare related issues and the entire aging process, all of which are key elements for families to consider, to coming up with the best solution for their loved ones.

[00:10:03] Another improvement I see is telemedicine. There’s so many ways that elderly patients and family caregivers can use tele-health to their advantage it digital healthcare services reduce the need for in-person appointments, lower the cost of care, reduce costly visits to the emergency room and improve patient satisfaction.

[00:10:23] As more patients reached the age of retirement, more families will need to depend on the services to care for their elderly loved one.

Michael Klatt: [00:10:31] Well, what you hit on though, is what I always was struck, especially in independent living and assisted living mom or dad or grandpa, and grandma would come and start loving in their quality of life and their experience.

[00:10:44] Even their communications with others and engagement, others would always dramatically increase and family members would come in and say, I can’t believe how well mom or dad is doing, or grandpa and grandma are doing here. And I do think the provider community really has never been able to capture that impact really well and told the story well.

[00:11:05] And so often people experienced a decline or they experienced some other factor that forces the move. And of course we all want to live in. Kind of is possible, but I do think we need to do a much better job telling our stories of how we can make an impact and how moving into a senior community really is not a step.

[00:11:28] Down toward less independence per se. It really is allowing you to have the support that you need to do the things that you want to do and keep doing. And I think a lot of it is the relationships. So many people, seniors struggle with isolation and as family members, I think that’s one of the keys is.

[00:11:47] Yes, it’s great to be living in an independence in your own home, but if you can be very, very isolated in your own home and not seeing very many people and not being around people and that causes major decline, that does cause a lot of impact with dementia. And as family members, I think it’s important to really be engaged and involved in having these conversations much, much earlier and taking tours much earlier.

[00:12:14] And so mom or dad can feel comfortable in that type of a setting and just go there to visit friends or to take advantage of say a music event or an activity just so you can see, well, what is this really like?

Hanh Brown: [00:12:28] It will become clear to an adult child that his or her parents need to make a move to an assisted living facility.

[00:12:35] Now, this may be because of a chronic health condition or increasing difficulty in managing everyday activities. However, the children often hesitate to raise this topic of assisted living to their parents. Because the idea of assisted living can bring with its fears of mortality worries over loss of independence and elder emotional weight.

[00:12:59] So consequently, the adult children will often delay these important conversations for a very long time until the need for assisted living becomes a crisis. Also cultural differences and family dynamics, adding to the mix can further complicate the decision.

Michael Klatt: [00:13:19] Family dynamics are really a major part of every provider’s experience.

[00:13:24] And I think it does create some challenges for us, but I think it’s again for providers to really be able to educate family members and to talk about those experiences and being. Upfront and honest about the emotions about what this is. There’s a lot of research in this space and a lot of seniors struggle from loneliness, helplessness, and boredom.

[00:13:44] And when you think about it that way, and providers think about it that way it’s well, what is this experience that I’m trying to create? This is not a real estate transaction, and that was what we saw in the early eighties to mid eighties, even nineties, early two thousands. This is a great real estate, and it’s going to produce a certain return on an investment for me as an investor or me as a developer.

[00:14:07] But when I got right down to it, the impact is, well, this is someone’s life that you’re taking care of. And how do you inspire holding that life and the families that around that. And I think that continues to be the challenge for new projects out there is what is this community can really be like when it’s finished.

Hanh Brown: [00:14:25] So, how do you inspire hope in that life in the families is critical. It’s not just a home that they’re moving into is a legacy that they created as they are moving into your community, that you have to.

Michael Klatt: [00:14:40] that’s right.

Hanh Brown: [00:14:42] Cultural and family dynamics, the level of awareness. The financial impact are just a few variables to consider.

[00:14:50] Eventually you’ll go through a journey of having to accept your loved one in their new home and see the changes in the level of acuity and just enjoy them as much as you can in getting to that place where you can be peaceful. Your mission is to bill senior living that’s integral to churches. So why are you doing that?

[00:15:13] And what are the benefits?

Michael Klatt: [00:15:15] I think there’s a lot of benefits and a lot of reasons why there really isn’t just one, obviously from a Christian perspective, I look at it as even going to this good Samaritan story. When a neighbor needs help or someone you don’t know needs help, what do you do? And how does the church respond to that?

[00:15:34] And so churches have, for years been involved in education and many churches founded historic senior care long-term care organizations. So it’s an involvement is historic goes back, actually centuries in this area of taking care of people in need and serving seniors, serving the vulnerable. And so serving people who need food.

[00:15:57] Taking care of the poor visiting people in prison is church is called I think, to do certain things here. And so from an outreach standpoint, from a community standpoint, I think it allows churches to do their work and their mission and their ministries out there regardless of denomination here. And so I think.

[00:16:18] You have churches that have shown us interest, they’ve done some programs. They might have senior housing as part of a campus. They maybe have done education and maybe now are looking at this or childcare now looking at this. But I think also their population or their churches are also aging as well.

[00:16:35] And so it gets to a point of how do we take care of her? Older members and community members. You have people that are driving that change. The other part of it is there’s a lot of churches in decline. A lot of denominations are in decline and you’ve seen changes in where people are living. That’s created different dynamics over the last number of years.

[00:16:55] And again, regardless of denomination, you’re starting to see a lot of changes. You’re also seeing changes in bigger areas, such as. Monastery who have had long centuries history of service with groups of sisters or months involved. And now there is no one there to carry it forward. And so now they’re looking at, well, how do we leave a legacy?

[00:17:20] How do we maybe end what we’ve been doing? Which is extraordinarily emotional, very, very difficult, and it’s very hard work for churches to make this change, but I also think it creates enormous opportunity for them to think about their legacy, to think about their outreach in a different way. One of the benefits is they have oftentimes excess land.

[00:17:42] They have real estate that really isn’t being used way. It’s probably even, should be. And you can look at it from a stewardship perspective and say, are we as a church being really good stewards of that 20 acres that we have there, or this area in this neighborhood, Mitch, maybe benefited by that. And I think that’s important as well.

[00:18:03] And finally, I would say for churches, I think it presents a really, really opportunity to look at themselves differently. I think you can be very inner focused in a church as studying thinking. Well, it’s about me. My great, great, great grandpa founded this church. I’m here today and carrying that forward and all of a sudden you lose well, what is the purpose of the church?

[00:18:26] And what are we doing here? And I think senior living experience, senior communities presents churches, a way to look at their ministry is different and it really doesn’t matter what life cycle that church is on. They might be just starting or they might be. A church that’s very, very sustainable or maybe a church that has insignificant decline.

[00:18:49] And I think it presents an opportunity to do some really, really good studying.

Hanh Brown: [00:18:55] So providing senior living or senior housing to churches, you’re creating opportunity for continuing ministry for the older adults. So what do you think COVID has done to the senior care sector?

Michael Klatt: [00:19:08] I think COVID is a blessing really in a lot of ways.

[00:19:12] It’s. Uh, remarkable all the impact, some of that very, very negative and some sad stories with it in our sector. But I also think. When you look at senior housing, long-term care, et cetera, we have proven that you can do telehealth and telemedicine very effectively. And we’ve proven that you should not be taking someone with dementia, ER, unless absolutely critically necessary that we should be able to bring telemedicine into memory care programs throughout the country today.

[00:19:43] And that we need to invest in, especially rural broadband now more than ever, but we need to bring telemedicine so that the impacts to the senior care population can really truly be positively changed here. And I think prior to the crisis, only one in three people were accepting of a virtual physician’s visit today.

[00:20:03] It’s over. Two-thirds are willing to do it. And that happened in three months. And I think now it’s going to be kind of a race to see the impact in the church. It was much the same way we are having dramatic shifts and there’s a number of changes that were impacting. And you had much more acceptance of online church or the last number of years where families were busy or they were doing activities, or they just weren’t willing to make the commitment to go to church, but they were willing to do online prayers and devotions and listen to church services.

[00:20:38] And I’m struck by the number of churches that actually went out and really worked hard. To provide the meaningful impact and especially seniors, again often are isolated. You actually have more connections. There’s a number of churches that did not do that and that they don’t have the resources or maybe the ability to do that.

[00:20:59] And I think you’re going to see even a quicker decline. Right. No, and I think it’s really important for churches that are in those types of situations. That again, may be appropriate for senior housing development to really think about this before you get to a point of a closure or you need to sell assets to try to keep your church functioning, which is another topic.

[00:21:24] But I think that’s one of the things we’re going to see out of COVID. The dramatic positives of telehealth and telemedicine in our sector and the positives for church life that integrates better and connects better, but it also is going to see some declines. And so the provider community that doesn’t adapt telemedicine until pretty rapidly, they’re going to find other competitors that are willing to do that.

[00:21:50] And that’s going to make an impact to you. Churches are in the same way. How do you connect with people? And the COVID crisis has created. Resource challenges for churches and nonprofits. And now they’re trying to adapt to that. And again, it’s going to create more escalation about churches that are in pretty serious situations, even prior to what do we do about our church or the real estate that we have, or the assets that we have.

[00:22:19] And I think that’s a great opportunity for senior housing providers and developers to have dialogue and conversations with churches. No. I think each denomination is different. I have the privilege right now of working with a couple of monasteries that are having to really look at their sustainability.

[00:22:38] And it’s been an interesting part of my new life is to try to help different churches. There’s a couple of churches that I’m working with that, you know, the neighborhood has changed and their church building doesn’t. Really look the way it should, and it’s not really in the right situation. And so they’re looking at how do you redevelop it?

[00:22:59] I think it’s really as a developer having conversations with churches, but I really do think it’s coming to a church and talking about ministry and partnerships, because this is an emotional conversation for a lot of churches about repositioning changing ministry or even abandoning or closing ministry.

[00:23:19] Right now I’ve seen some churches develop where their large sanctuary is no longer what is needed, but instead of just not having a church, they’re building senior apartments and they’re doing like a condo agreement with say seven to 10,000 square feet. That’s dedicated for that church experience.

[00:23:38] They’re serving senior population, but they’re using that as their post to do outreach to the community as well. I think that’s a creative solution and I think it’s a really good solution. I do see a lot of churches that have access. That maybe that should be used in a different way, from a stewardship perspective and serve more people.

[00:23:59] And I think a developer would look at those opportunities and have conversations. A lot of times developers or companies have the people internally to have the dialogue. You might have someone who has a strong Baptist connection or someone who is a Roman Catholic connection or a Lutheran or a Methodist connections you start dialoguing about, well, what is your church doing in senior housing?

[00:24:23] Will they entertain the ideas? Senior housing? Ultimately, the developers should also try to make it very simple to start with with this is kind of how we approach things, not make it over complicated, but also give the church options to look at. There’s a lot of ways to do a development project, to bring revenue back to a church or to sell or lease back or do certain things.

[00:24:47] And I think the church should be given different options. And then finally, I think it’s really critical for developers to understand that. If you don’t have the patience, but also the persistence to do this work with churches, it’s going to be maybe a challenging, you know, I see some developers that want to go from zero to a hundred, very fast in a church.

[00:25:08] Their governance is not structured that way. They’re getting. People to support it is also not in that way. And especially when it comes to a closure or a ministry need in disband. There’s a book here it’s called grace crossroads. It’s by dr. Ted. He’s a consultant, not a st. Louis. And I encourage developers to read through it a bit.

[00:25:31] And one of the reasons why is he works for him and his wife, Beth, who is a former sister, ironically. Has worked with a lot of Benedictine sisters whose ministries honestly, are really struggling to survive. And now they’re looking at well, what do we need to do? And that was not part of the plan for them to dispatch or to close.

[00:25:55] And now they’re coming to that point. And so I think it’s really important for the developer to gain trust and confidence and to let them go through their experience. The emotion of the ministry, not being able to survive, but also a ministry to create a new. Future a legacy, many monasteries and their real estate have the ability to be very significant impact for outreach and communities.

[00:26:25] And I think having the right partner for your church is really, really important to their values align, or is it just a really good real estate location? You know, if the church sees that probably not going to gain a lot of trust and confidence in you because they want to have someone that. Really takes this seriously because of all the time and effort and emotions that are invested with it.

Hanh Brown: [00:26:49] What are you suggesting that developers and churches to have conversations about joint effort in developing senior living? Whether the church is in its early startup stages, perhaps thriving, or maybe even churches that are struggling, I guess, regardless of any stage, because there’s opportunities to make an impact on the congregation.

[00:27:09] So it starts with relationship and trust and not in terms of an acquisition of a piece of real estate.

Michael Klatt: [00:27:16] A lot of times pastors do get together in different groups. They might get together for a Bible study themselves, or they have their own conference. I do think developers can be resources to do a senior housing for those folks as well.

[00:27:30] So I think searching for the right group of people to really talk about. The opportunities we have, I think is important as well. And the approaches that you might take. And so educating them also, I think it’s really important or pastors and leaders to really set again their own emotions in this. Um, you know, I’m working with a gentleman right now.

[00:27:51] Who’s seen his church decline and probably will close. And he’s a little concerned about. Well, what’s going to happen to me. And I think that’s only natural, only human to feel that way, but I think it’s really important for pastors and their leaders to really understand. Let’s make sure we check ourselves and let’s make sure that we’re looking at what’s the right thing to do for the community, for the church as a whole.

[00:28:19] What are we called to do as leaders in this congregation? And then look at it as in a positive way. I think anyone that’s gone through change and you’ve done that on, I’ve done that just challenging, and it can be terrifying to make a major career change. And then also it can be the best thing that’s ever happened.

[00:28:39] And I think for pastors who are in a situation, this wasn’t part of their vision and now their churches may be looking at closure. How do you help. Leave a legacy close properly. I think those are all conversations that are really, really important to have and to really think through them and not avoid them.

[00:28:59] Don’t wait until there’s a crisis. Don’t wait until something needs to be sold. That’s probably one of the more sad situations that I’ve witnessed. And number of years is a developer comes along. The church is struggling financially. And the prime piece of real estate that they have now has been carved off.

[00:29:19] And they’ve used up the resources because it helps sustain them for three to five years. Maybe. And now they’re at the same point they were prior to, I think those are conversations again. You want to have well before there’s a crisis in storage that makes sure that you’re making the right decisions.

Hanh Brown: [00:29:38] Church leaders and developers reach out to one another in their congregation, local city, or maybe even LinkedIn to start the conversation.

Michael Klatt: [00:29:47] Right. And I think it’s really incumbent on the church leader is to really reach out to folks saying, you know, architects are really good sources of people who say, well, what kind of.

[00:29:58] Churches have you worked with, and if they haven’t worked with a lot of churches, they’re probably don’t have those types of connections necessarily, but I think those are great sources. I do think it’s not always easy to find the developer of senior housing, but obviously going online and doing research, you can find a number of them.

[00:30:17] And I think. Again, reaching out to your own members and people in your denomination. And connecting, I think is important. Utilizing LinkedIn, I think is a good tool as well, that you can connect with people and find those types of resources.

Hanh Brown: [00:30:30] So what does aging mean to you in how is your aging process?

Michael Klatt: [00:30:35] I really struggle with that question.

[00:30:38] You know, I’m 55 and I don’t ever really want to retire. We talked about that a little bit earlier. You know, I stepped down after 32 years. People congratulated me on my retirement retiring early. I never intended to retire. It was just, I’m going to do something different, whatever that means. And I want to keep making a difference.

[00:30:58] I hope I don’t ever lose that. Desire to make an impact and make a difference in the community and the people around me. I want to serve in a variety of ways. And I think a lot of people are like that. A lot of people who are aging are looking at same. I still want to make a difference. I may want to have fun.

[00:31:16] I may want to travel. I might want to have experiences, but I really just want to keep. Living and have friends around me and to make an impact. There’s a gentleman in the twin cities retired a couple of years ago and I get a kick out of him, him and his friends. They have resources and all sorts of abilities.

[00:31:37] And I have a lot of fun. Well, one of the things they do is they still work and their job is to repair divots on a golf course. There’s a group and you know, they’re in their seventies and eighties and they’re the duvet. And they’re proud of being in the desert crew and they have some golf course, really look good, but they’re getting up at four in the morning to get ready to go out and being on divots.

[00:32:03] And I think about that, you’ve worked. Long hard hours you’ve been successful in your careers. You could grab a fishing pole whenever you want to, or a golf club and they choose to repair divots. But these same folks, also one volunteers in a memory care program where his wife passed away, she had early onset dementia.

[00:32:21] He continues to help there and continues to make an impact. Another one on the divot Crow. He’s a volunteer in the veterans home in Minneapolis, and there. Well up there in years, and yet there’s still, I have a purpose. I have a passion. I want to make a difference. I’m not in a rocking chair and there’s nothing wrong with a rocking chair, but sitting there all day long, it’s more than I think for me.

[00:32:48] I see aging as just something that’s happening, that’s normal, but I still want to keep making a difference in the world. And I really do believe that’s what most people want to do is make a difference and know that they can inspire hope or help someone and also contribute their time and talents and even their resources or treasures that God’s blessed them with.

Hanh Brown: [00:33:10] Well, I think that’s a blessing. Aging is a beautiful thing. It doesn’t matter where you are in your journey. Your capacity in acuity is the fact that you’re alive and your creator allows you to be where you are. It’s a blessing to be still healthy, vibrant to serve, and to have fun, whether it’s big or small, whether it’s making divots or building senior living.

[00:33:34] So I think that’s great. I appreciate that. So have you thought about your own senior living options and what would that look like?

Michael Klatt: [00:33:42] No I’ve thought about it. Some in my career where I’m at, I’m in South Dakota, South Dakota, winter is not exciting. It’s pretty brutal in the upper Midwest. So both my wife’s and I will probably look at a location maybe down in the Southwest United States for part of the year.

[00:34:00] And that’s part of the plan. I think we want to be able to live in our home for as long as we can, and we want to be able to participate in the community as long as it can. I do believe though, when I was nearly killed in a vehicle accident, I was in my own nursing home for nine weeks and it took me about a year to walk again and having.

[00:34:21] Then a leader. And then all of a sudden you’re surrounded by your team members, as caregivers is very humbling, it was a great experience to go through this. It was inexperienced to know what you were doing and promoting for all those years was exactly the experience that you wanted. And so I have no fear about the day when I may need to come to a setting and say, this needs to be my new home.

[00:34:45] I also believe. Having witnessed so many people whose lives improve that it’s important there. So if I ever felt like. On my and myself away and I need to be around people more. I can see the value of that very quick, like to say that I need to be in that type of a setting and have a group of friends that that’s important.

[00:35:06] And I think long-term, that probably looks like being in a community. I think the one trend that I do think is different and it’s going to be interesting to see if the sun city, Arizona are the future. Or are you going to see more integrated, even urban senior housing, especially in the urban areas where you have much more of an integrated community feel where the young and the old aren’t separated, where it isn’t the senior community per se, where it’s more a combination of multi-family and intergenerational, and that’s not.

[00:35:40] A new concept, but I do think baby boomers and millennials coming up will have a dramatic alternatives to what has been kind of the segregation of nursing care. If you see that way or even a senior care campus in those safety. All those things are important, but I think you want to be around that vitality in life.

[00:36:04] And one of the things that I had the experience the last couple of years, we downsized prior to making this change. We ended up with a new group of friends at a bar called Vicks, and then. Tuesday, we had taco Tuesday and folks loved it because you could get a taco for a buck. And it was two for one beers and it was cheap.

[00:36:24] But here I was, the youngest person on our group was 25 and there was a few 20 year-olds. The oldest was 93. We ended up going to this couple of were in their early nineties for holiday gathering here in last December. And I looked around and thought, this is absolutely the coolest thing. We’re a new group of friends who get together for tacos and we’re at the couples who in their nineties and they were having a blast entertaining.

[00:36:53] This no one was talking about their age. We were talking about family lives and career changes and getting together. And that to me seemed extraordinarily normal. And I think that’s what people want is you want that normalcy to say, yeah, I want to go to a taco Tuesday with a 25 year old and that feels good.

[00:37:13] And that’s what I’d love to have if I’m in my early nineties and I got that, I’m going to find a taco Tuesday.

Hanh Brown: [00:37:20] Oh, I think that’s great. It’s a healthy outlook to stay engaged with the younger group in their mid twenties and the older groups in their nineties. This allows you to stay engaged, pet perspective, and also shed wisdom to the younger generation.

[00:37:34] Sometimes I feel when my kids were younger, it was more like a one-way communication. I was always like directing. But as they get older, you become less directing and it’s more of a two way communication. So I enjoy that more now with my college kids, when they come home. I remember before I was really skeptical, always asking, what are you guys doing?

[00:37:56] Where are you going, who you hang around with? You know, very maternal concerns. But now I’m pretty chill. It’s good for me. And it’s good for them. And it keeps me young.

Michael Klatt: [00:38:06] It does. And it’s just wonderful to have those type of relationships and to have that type of communication between parents and children.

[00:38:14] And so that’s awesome.

Hanh Brown: [00:38:16] Yeah, well, Hey, thank you so much. I appreciate the time to talk. Is there something else that you would like to add?

Michael Klatt: [00:38:22] Thank you for the privilege and I’m glad you’re doing and work in this space on serving. We need people like you to be in this area as well, and I’m confident you will be blessed.

Hanh Brown: [00:38:32] Thank you so much. So if there is something that you need, please don’t hesitate to let me know.

Michael Klatt: [00:38:38] Thank you so much.

Hanh Brown: [00:38:40] All right, well thank you and take care. Thank you so much for joining us.

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