In this episode of Boomer Living, we have Todd Andrews, Division President, responsible for overseeing Asbury Communities CCRC’s that encompass a portfolio of 8 communities in 3 states. These communities serve 4300 residents and employ more than 2800 associates. This role encompasses full operational accountability, innovation, and service delivery to support Asbury’s mission of Doing All the Good We Can.
During Todd’s 28 plus years serving residents, he has provided strategic leadership in both the not-for-profit and for-profit sectors. A staunch advocate for helping others live their best life, Todd’s leadership focuses on enhancing lifestyle opportunities and meeting people where they are in their lives. He is responsible for driving the strategic plan, organizational vision, and growth of the mission to both our residents and staff alike.
We discuss why he believes senior living communities are the best place to be during the COVID-19 pandemic and the bad press these communities have received, attracting good talent, why communication throughout the organization is the most important focus we need to have in these times, and how it is essential for retention of staff and much more…[00:00] Pre-Introduction discussion
[01:48] Can you explain why you believe that senior living communities are the best place to be during the pandemic?
[03:11] Why do you think so much of the bad press around COVID was aimed at nursing homes and other assisted living communities? Do you think they were easy targets for the media?
[04:18] Have you found it harder to attract quality talent in these times? How can we continue to attract talent to our field nowadays?
[05:43] What shifts in talent acquisition do you think are vital to the industry’s success in a post-COVID world?
[07:29] In 10 or 20 years, what changes do you think the senior living industry will undergo?
[10:16] What are those factors that define a successful senior living organization?
[12:52] Will the factors that describe a successful senior living organization change in the future, post-COVID?
[16:04] What is stopping us from getting to a successful senior living organization, sooner?
[18:57] How do you try to embody Asbury’s mission of doing all the good we can in your day-to-day job?
[20:44] Is Asbury’s mission something that you carry into your everyday life as well?
[22:30] A senior living community is more than a business.
[23:45] How do you empower such a large workforce, over 2,800 associates, to also live by Asbury’s mission?
[25:16] What do you think is your biggest strength that enables you to have a unique, impactful effect on older adults?
[26:38] Do you think working closely with older adults has changed you in any way?
[27:21] Do you have anything else that you would like to share?
Todd Andrews holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Public Administration from Binghamton University and resides in Richmond, Virginia with his wife Melissa, 3 children, and French bulldog Bella.
Todd’s LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/todd-andrews-54035832/
Interestingly enough, in 2020, since people haven’t seen each other because of the pandemic and all these conferences where there’s presentations and stuff, that’s why I’ve been listening a lot, just to hear how things have been evolving with people, because you know, our world has evolved, and changed and continues to change on a daily basis. So it’s always curious to me to hear what other people are thinking and feeling. So I enjoy your podcast.
Oh, thank you. Thank you.
I’m pretty passionate about a few things that I think we’ve had wrong for a while. So…
Oh, be passionate. I agree with you.
Hopefully, that’ll come out.
I think we all need to change and I’m excited to hear what those changes are from you. Today I’d like to welcome Todd Andrews To Boomer Living. Todd oversees eight CCRC’s Asbury communities across three States, which in total serve 4,300 residents and employ more than 2,800 associates. So I’m eager to talk to him about his role and his company’s mission, which is doing all the good we can. So, Todd, thank you so much for being with me today on Boomer Living.
Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity, appreciate it.
Yup. So, we all know that senior communities have unjustly gotten a lot of bad press due to COVID-19 pandemic. And I understand you believe that senior living community is the best place to be during the pandemic. So can you explain why?
Sure, thanks for the question. You know, very interestingly enough. We’ve always prided ourselves in a retirement communities about lifestyle and allowing people to age in place if they like or do different things. But one of the real interesting things about this pandemic is the safety and security that we can offer people. Now it’s been a little bit of a change challenge for some, because they’re very active and they’re very interested and engaged with their friends and their family and whatnot. But I think at this point in time, as we’ve coming. I don’t want to say coming out of the pandemic, we’re kind of getting to a better place now with some vaccines. And we really understand this virus. It’s the safest place to be the protocols that we put into place, the desire our staff has to make sure we’re doing the right things and taking care of people and being able to, keep that bubble effect a little bit. Um, and, and, and our resonant populations, as large as they are still having that bubble effect and keeping people safe with the group that they’re familiar with and not a whole lot of new people coming in and out, I think has been something that we have talked a lot with our perspective residents and our current residents about.
Why do you think so much of the bad press around COVID was aimed at nursing homes and other assisted living communities? Do you think we were easy targets for the media?
Yeah, it’s definitely easy targets, I’ll probably make a statement that, uh, that some people may disagree with, but it seems that every death certificate says COVID-19 on it. You don’t see the news covering hospitals and the number of people that pass away in a hospital every day. But the target was right on Washington state back in February when this first started and that one nursing home and the media sometimes has a tendency to make, what I’ll call unholy allowance alliances where everybody’s bad, cause w one person had a problem. Those people didn’t do a bad job. They did everything they possibly could. They were just at the epicenter at the beginning and it just started this snowball Still to this day, elders aren’t able to get services the way they should in the larger communities, despite your 1A, 1B, 1C and all the, the federal and state mandates. We’re still having challenges, getting people vaccinated. It’s just it’s a very difficult time. And I think the press has sometimes a tendency to pile on a little bit, and it was an easy target to pile on with.
Now, have you found it harder to attract quality talent in these times? And I guess, how can we continue to attract talent to our field nowadays?
Interestingly enough, it’s been hard for a while. Talent is the lifeblood of any business. To be able to evolve your business, to be able to manage your business, to be able to take care of people and provide great customer services, all dependent on the people in which you have. The systems, the resources, the dollars you invest, that’s all great, but it really comes down to the people and how they interact, with residents and families, on a day-to-day basis. And I’m, I’m a firm believer in, the hospitality model of service. Every comment, concern and question is followed up in our campuses to the greatest extent that we can, whether it’s coming from a staff, a family member, or a resident. It’s very important for us to use that, as our tagline of doing all the good you can. And we believe that for staff too. We have seen an influx of nursing staff, coming into our communities to get away from the hospitals and the challenging time within hospitals. It’s still not easy. We’re all after that same great employee out there. So it really comes down to your culture, not so much the benefits and the pay you offer, why that’s always important. It really comes down to your culture and your desire to meet people where they are and to be flexible with schedules and so on, so forth. It’s been a challenge, but not a challenge that’s insurmountable for us to get to a better place with.
What shifts in talent acquisition do you think are vital to the industry’s success in a post COVID world?
Great question. I think that we’re going to start seeing instantaneous hiring practices and we’re starting to, experiment with those where we actually, we can’t have a job fair per se, but we can invite candidates in, do an interview and be prepared to do a provisional job offer, while they’re there onsite, that day, especially with your clinical staff who are very hard to get. You don’t want to lose somebody who’s, if somebody is outlook and they’re not just coming to you, they’re coming in three or four places. And they’re testing the culture, through the process. And the process starts from the time somebody submits something electronically. What do they get back? Who contacts them? When’s the first point that a person actually calls them? Does somebody follow up along the way. And I think those are critical steps to help people position their culture of their organization differently. People do everything on their phone nowadays, right? You’ll apply for a job on your phone. You’ll respond to a text message on your phone. So we have to be flexible to use all those avenues, texting email, Facebook Messenger, all the different things. And I’m not the most technically savvy person in the world, but I’ve had to become a lot more savvy just to deal with, the potential opportunities that we have in front of us from an innovative perspective and re… Recruitment is something you have to be innovative with. You have to be willing. We’ve actually added recruiters that do nothing but recruit that used to be a function that HR would do when they had time or they had a couple of days a week for recruiting. Now we have dedicated recruiters. That’s all they do all day is mine for candidates and put messages out and, mine LinkedIn and find great people, and see if they’re interested in having conversations with us.
So, in 10 or 20 years, what changes do you think the senior living industry will undergo?
Very interesting question. Yeah. For years and years, we’ve all as operators coveted that younger, more vibrant resident to come to our community a little bit younger and this is where I might get a little edgy. I think that, the resident we should be coveting is the one who wants to enjoy the lifestyles that we offer. And that shouldn’t matter what age that is. Gone are the days that I think that people will continue to come to community based on a health triggering event. Now it’s really important that you have a broad lifestyle and in 10 or 20 years, that’s going to mean technology. The one wonderful thing of this pandemic, I can remember prior to the pandemic fighting with residents over technology. And what I mean by that is when we’d say something like “We’d like to put smart homes in.” And they’d be saying, “Wow, we don’t want, I have no interest in that.” Half of our residents didn’t even have cell phones, before the pandemic. That’s all changed. So the wonderful thing that I think we have an opportunity in front of us is how to integrate technology into what we do for everyone at every level of care, along the way from artificial intelligence to robotics. I think the slate is clean. And we have an opportunity to really get innovative and try some really cool new things. And we’ve actually started implementing some of those things even during the pandemic, because it was a good time to do it. When you had some of your services closed down, it’s a nice time to retool, if you can afford a and make the time to do that. So we’re actually retooling our campuses right now, to be able to serve people better coming out of the pandemic. Whether it’s from dining, or housekeeping, or transportation, or events that we would have. We’re putting all kinds of technology… The way we screen people is not by a person holding a temperature gun. We actually have pedestals that people can use that load into the system so people can be tracked that way. All these things, why they seem minor, I think technology is really going to lead us to a better place in senior living. And you’ve probably heard the term CCRC without walls. Technology is a vital piece to that. Tele-health, how does that factor in? I don’t know about you, but I haven’t gone to the doctor in the last 12 months, but I’ve had doctor visits on telehealth, and had conversations with my physician and updated prescriptions or whatever, right over my computer screen, and, like I talked to you. So I think technology’s where it’s at. And then I think the other piece, that’s so important is hospitality and customer service and how we train and develop our teams to be very laser focused in providing that customer service on a day-to-day basis.
Amen to that. So, let’s, uh, let’s talk about, as far as the factors that define a successful senior living organization. What are those factors?
I think it, again, it comes back to hospitality and customer service. If you don’t have that, figured out, you will struggle because you’re living, your living environment while in COVID. That’s probably the most important part of your, what is the house or the room or whatever that you live in look like. That’s a huge, a huge piece of it. But, I think it’s so important that customer service from, if you place a phone call, no matter who you call on campus, wherever you’re looking, you’re getting somebody who understands the options, who engages you, who follows up, makes sure that, they’re listening intently, not listening to talk, not listening to answer all that stuff. It’s getting back to basics in my mind. Successful community is really that it’s about creating community and the staff is so important to that. The second thing I would point to is providing residents, lifestyle and activities that are important to them, which means that your spaces have to be transitional. You can’t just go in with one thing. So, if, you have a room, that’s the multi-purpose room, is a word we’ve heard for years and years, and we’d have church service in there and play cards and do this and that. Those days are over. Now, it’s really had to be multifaceted. So it might be a, it might be a post office at Christmas time to help people deal with their Amazon packages. But during the rest of the year, it’s a veterinary clinic that they can get their pets groomed or something of that matter. A movie theater that can also double as a performing arts theater. How do you engage with the larger community? I think is what makes successful community. Isolated behind, a gate and walls, creates, a city cutoff from the rest of the world. I think it’s very important how you engage, the rest of the world. We’ve had a challenge with that during COVID that we can’t do the things that we’ve always liked to do. Another thing I would point out is intergenerational programming. How do you engage younger people to not only engage with seniors, but how do you do so to get them excited about a potential career in senior living? Those are very important. And I think mixing all these things together is a clever cocktail, if you will, for a successful community. I could sit here and tell you, you have to have nice facilities and a great wellness program and all that kind of stuff, which is, that’s a, those are givens. I think what separates one from the other is the customer service aspect that we bring to the table, and the family environment in which people live.
Very good. I’m just agreeing with you wholeheartedly. So now, do you think the factors that you just described that define a successful senior living organization, will that change in the future post COVID?
Sure hope not. I think customer service is King. I think if you were to ask me in regular life, “Todd, do you think customer service is dead in the world?” I’d say, yeah, it kinda is. The, doesn’t matter what you do, it’s it ends up being a challenge. Technology is great, but everything’s so email generated. I can tell you that one of the things that I like to preach on a very regular basis is two things. In COVID how do we get to “yes?” How do we be able to say yes to a request or something people are looking for? And it’s easy to say, “No, we shouldn’t do it because of this.”, or “We can’t do it because of COVID. We can’t put people in the same room.” All those things we have to figure out a way to get to, Yes. And I think that will remain very important as we go forward. And then it’s listening to the customer. It’s really, listening to the residents who choose to live on your campuses, understanding their needs and their family’s needs, and being able to what I call “pivot”. You can be, you need to be able to pivot based on what people want. And in the past, we had the tendency to pivot based on the one or two loudest voices that you would hear. And we would pivot our offerings based on that, because we wanted to make that one person happy. Now it’s how do you engage the bigger population and figure out really what they’re looking for and then deliver to that, but also follow up to make sure it hasn’t changed. One of the things that I would point to, and one of the great opportunities I had when I first joined Asbury, is I had an opportunity to live on our largest campus for four months. And initially people were like “Why would you want to do that?” Let me tell you why I do that. I learned more in that four months, then I would learn in 40 years, as a staff member. And why do I say that? Because I ate with them. I took part in activities. I took part in off-campus activities with people. I met their families. You do that over time, but I was able to do it from the perspective of somebody who lives in our community. And I learned all the things that we really could do better. I’ll give you a quick, easy one and people don’t think about how disruptive these kinds of things. So, every morning, the trash truck. Would come outside the building, I was staying in and dump the dumpster at five 30 in the morning and slam it back to the ground. Now, how many people just got en-tuned to that after a while, and stopped complaining and just realized that’s what time the trash comes. The trash doesn’t have to come at five-thirty. That’s convenient for the trash company, not for the customer service aspect of what you’re trying to build in a community. So things like that, you learn by spending time with residents and a different focus. My job was just a simple, to sit down with people and listen and learn and understand what they’re interested in and how we could make things better. And I did that for four months and it was the best four months, I would tell you of my 30 year career in senior living.
Wonderful this, uh, everything that you’re sharing, uh, I can tell you’re very passionate and it’s very genuine. So, I appreciate that. Okay. So everything that you described, the factors that define success with senior living organization. So now, what is stopping us from getting there or getting there sooner?
I think we have a tendency to get in our own way, sometimes. I think we have a tendency to focus on, the pieces of the puzzle and not the whole puzzle. You’re not going to be everything to everybody. And I think we have this tendency sometimes to try to be everything to everybody, including the employees. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but I think that draws you away from what’s really important. I think at the end of the day, we have such an opportunity to take a step back in this pandemic and realize how fast did we pivot last March when we had to? If you would have said to people, “We have to do things differently and we have to change the way we bring people onto campus.”, it would have took months, if not years, to get done because people are set in their ways and this is how we’ve always done it. And that’s not just staff, that’s residents too. They get very used to how things work. And once you try to change that, and that makes it very challenging. I think this pandemic has some really good things that will help us in the long run. Pivoting is one. We’re going to continue to have to pivot. And now when we talk to our staff about doing new things, we’re actually talking in our, one of our campuses right now about putting in a boxing studio and a rock climbing wall in our wellness center. Five years ago, people would be like, “You’re crazy. Why would you do some, something like that? Who’s going to use that.” I think the resonance will use it. But I will tell you who else will use it, who is very difficult to get to come, to spend time with their grandparents and that’s the teenagers. That’s people on their cell phone all day. So what are we going to do? Well, maybe we should have virtual reality studios that they can engage with their grandparent with, or do something really cool, visit a foreign land, stuff like that. I guess what I would call it as not being scared to be brave and do something different. And guess what, if it doesn’t work. Say it doesn’t work and do something else. Fail fast, and move on. Don’t ride that same thing until, the end of time, that was a good idea, when you first started doing it. If it doesn’t work anymore, do something different. The final thing that I would mention of what we get in our own way is we don’t partner enough. We don’t partner within our community enough. We don’t partner with business leaders that understand services better than we do. We have this tendency to think we, were the experts in everything from food service to housekeeping, to transportation, to how to run a intergenerational program. It’s all about partnering and finding good partners out there that are experts in those things. And then how to make them make you better. I think that’s sometimes we get in our own way, cause we’re set in our ways sometimes. And I love to challenge our teams to come up with innovative new ideas that nobody else is doing. We ask three questions at Asbury. Why? Why not? And how can we do it better?
Awesome. I love it. I love it. Okay, so I’m going to talk about the Asbury’s mission. Okay. Now, how do you try to embody Asbury’s mission of doing all the good we can in your day-to-day job?
Great question. I think it’s just paying attention and listening closely and with every opportunity, whether it’s a negative experience or a positive experience. I mentioned to you before we went on air today that we’re having a vaccine clinic today. We’ll, we’re going to vaccinate about a thousand people this week in our residential living environment. It’s spending time here. I’ve completely blocked my calendar so I can spend time here. And what job am I doing? I’m the person greeting people at the door and really understanding how they’re doing. And I’m getting a thought in a feeling around how are they doing? We’re making notes, and we’re saying, “Mrs. Brown is seeming to be moving a little bit slower than the last time we saw her a month or two ago because of the pandemic. So how can we engage Mrs. Brown differently? Do we go to her apartment? Do we talk with the family?” It’s those kinds of things, I think that are very important. We have our social workers and some of our other partners, people work in this clinic as well because the clinics’s something celebrate and get excited about. Our residents are so excited that they’re on the front side of this vaccination. But it’s an opportunity for us to figure out how we can do all the good we can, even in tough times, where we’re not having the amenities we would always have. And then it goes back to what I said earlier is how do you get to Yes? Doing our mission of doing all the good you can is how do you get to Yes? Yes, there’s CDC guidelines and state and federal. There’s so many guidelines and safe practices out there, but it really comes down to how do we figure out a way to get to Yes? And help people live their best lives, even in a time that’s very difficult to live your best life.
All right. I love that. Now, is this mission something that you carry into your everyday life as well as your job?
Great question. I’d like to think so. I think that a lot of times we forget about our day-to-day lives because of this pandemic, because, we have this vast responsibility of, shepherding services to people who depend on us every day. And I think that also happens at home. I think there’s an opportunity for all of us to really use this pandemic, to take a step back and look in the mirror a little bit and say, “What kind of father do I want to be? What kind of husband do I want to be? What kind of life do I want to be? What kind of friend do I want to be?” And for me personally, it’s been really intentional about connecting with people through this pandemic and reaching out to people that as I might’ve mentioned earlier, we don’t see regularly in the industry, friends of ours, that we used to see five, six, seven times a year at a conference all across the country. Cause we’d all go to these big conferences that we can’t have. It’s not the same online. We can do a Zoom meeting, but you may be chatting in the Zoom, but that’s not the same that the human interaction part is so important. I am a big believer of, I’m old school. I’d rather call somebody on the phone and send an email or a text. So I’m the person who, you know, as I’m driving, as I travel, I fill up every minute of airtime with people. Whether it’s staff returning phone calls, that’s one of the others in your personal life is how do you connect with friends, families, and others people that you just don’t see very often? I think that’s important. And I think you have to take stock in that every now and again, to make sure that you’re actually, doing those things because man, it’s been a long year, but man has it gone by fast. It really, this last year has gone by so fast and you’re like, “Wow, it’s March 21 already. What the heck happened?”
MmmHmm. As you were speaking, I was paying attention, but my mind also drifted and what I wanted to say, is, of course, “This is a business, but we’re in a caring business.” So when I asked that question, I’m thinking to myself, “You’re one person, you’ve got one heart. Whether it’s one heart serving your family, it’s one heart serving your residents and your staff.” So it’s not something that you have multiple a different heart for a different purpose. It doesn’t work that way.
Sure. Sure. Yeah. And, and, you’re, you know that you said it. We’re in the caring business. We’re in the service business. We’re in the hospitality and customer service business. We’re in all that. And I think that if you relish that opportunity, and if I could, I would share. My wife and I have had this conversation. I actually get to see people on a very regular basis and her job has been very Zoom based over the last year. And I can tell it’s been a challenge for her because she’s such a social person and she’s been really making efforts to figure out ways to connect with people differently in, in safe way. But, connect with people differently. And I’ve been very fortunate that when you work in communities such as ours with, 4,000 residents and 3000 staff, that’s a lot of people. So you have a lot of human contact. It might be socially distant, but you still have human contact.
Now, how do you empower such a large workforce, over 2,800 associates, to also live by this mission, which is doing all the good we can in your day to day job?
We have a, um, kind of a moniker we call “Just Culture”. And it really boils down to this. You listen to the people closest to the process. You have to give people the power to make decisions that impact people’s lives every day. That can’t be, “Let me go check with my supervisor, or let me call my manager to see if I can do that.” You have to empower your staff to make decisions as they stand there, with a challenge. And I think listening to, and that, and then from a leadership perspective, it’s very important that I take the pulse of people and sit down and understand. What’s going right? What’s not? What are the roadblocks? I say to people all the time, my, my most important job is to remove roadblocks from being successful, whatever that is. And sometimes we get in our own way a little bit when you’re a large organization and that’s not said to be a bad thing, but we get in our own way because of function and form and history and the way we’ve done things. So for us to move faster, and our CEO loves to say, “How do we move faster?” I really love that because, I’m a big believer in move fast, fail, fast to do something different. And I think the staff sees that and they realize that this isn’t just something that’s going to be the same every day. There’s going to be change, but it’s going to be good change. And it’s going to be driven based on the feedback we get, not only from the residents that live in our communities, but the staff as well.
MmmHmm. MmmHmm. Wonderful. Now, what do you think is your biggest strength that enables you to have a unique, impactful effect on older adults?
Hmm. That’s a, that’s a very interesting question. To me. I think it goes back when I was a kid, I had an opportunity to live with my grandmother when we couldn’t afford for her to be in assisted living. So I learned a lot about elders and how, fascinating their lives are and how important it is for us to give back to people who gave and came before us, that old adage of, “People will pave the way for us.” I’m a real big believer in that. And, dealing with everybody with compassion, care. But also, accountability too. I think my biggest strength is that I’m a very accountable person. So if I screw up, I’ll be the first one to say “I was wrong, or I should’ve done this or that, or the other thing.”, and make amends and move on. I think people have come to realize that I’m not afraid to say I was wrong, but I’m also not afraid to take risk. And I think those are the things in the future that leaders are going to have to continue to be. Because, the biggest risk is staying and doing the thing you’ve always done. That’s worked out well, cause eventually it won’t work out that well anymore, and you’ll be far behind if not out of business. I don’t typically call this a business. I call it a, it’s a caring calling if you will. But it has to be run like a business too. We have to be successful enough to keep investing back in our business. So we have to find that balance.
MmmHmm. MmmHmm. Very true. All right. So, do you think working closely with older adults has changed you in any way?
Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s the only thing I’ve ever done. I had a job as a paperboy when I was 12. And I got my first job working in a pizza place and I realized very quickly that wasn’t for me. And I’ve been in senior living ever since. I, I worked in a food service for a senior living, re nursing home when I was 16 years old, my mother was a CNA and she got me a job there. And I’ve done this ever since. It’s changed me for the better. I’ve learned so much. I’ve had so many great experiences and relationships that still carry to today. And it’s not just elders, it’s also the staff who cares for the elders that are very important to me as well.
We’re very blessed to have you in the industry. Wow. Do you have anything else that you would like to share?
Sure. I th, I think one of the things that I’d like to remind everybody is, continue trying new, cool things. Don’t be afraid to try that crazy idea that everybody else may have said “Won’t work.” Whether it’s a partnership with somebody in the community that wants to provide services, or just listening to somebody who has a great idea. I recently had an interaction with one of our residents who worked in telecom his whole life, and we’ve had some challenges with some of our phone system at one of our campuses. And he sketched out this most elaborate way to fix the problem. Now, we may not be able to do it exactly the way he sketched it out, but I gotta tell ya. That’s a pretty darn good idea. And even our internal people thought it was a really good idea. So, I think there’s just opportunities to continue leveraging the fascinating minds that live on our campuses, in different ways. Don’t be afraid to involve them in the solution. I think sometimes we’re a little, we’re a little afraid to bring residents into the, into the conversation early when we’re still trying to figure out how we solve a problem, because we’re afraid they might think we don’t know what we’re doing. I look at it completely different. If we don’t bring the people who we are entrusted to care for early, we will be challenged. So I’m very excited about that. And I think that we all need to spend time doing more of that.
You know, you’re very passionate and it’s it clearly it comes through my monitor and you’re very inspirational to listen to. So, I mean that, um, to have you and, um, in the industry, and I’m very thankful for this opportunity to talk to you.
I’m very thankful for you as well. And I’ll put a plug out for what you’re doing because I’ve spent a lot of time listening to other people talk and I’ve learned so much. Like I said, we haven’t been able to gather in large groups and conferences and get that education. So you’re providing a valuable resource to the industry. So thank you.
This is, this has been fabulous and keep doing what you’re doing. It’s a real valuable resource and you probably don’t hear it enough. People love the connection and my wife’s a big podcast person. I’m just learning to be one. But your podcast is one of the ones that I listened to.
Thank you so much. Have a great afternoon.
You too. Take care.
You too. Bye-bye.